There's an interesting write up on him in the Scriptorium: www.themodernword.com/scr...craft.html that debates his worth as a "serious" author. His semi-official archive is at the appropriate: www.hplovecraft.com
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ljim2000 |
H. P. Lovecraft |
Lead | |
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I recently went on about this in the J. G. Ballard thread, but I believe that H. P. Lovecraft is better classified as a science fiction author than in the horror genre. Certainly his books are scary, but they are actually filled with alien life forms who puny humans invariably mistake for demons. One story which really reads like an SF tale is At the Mountains of Madness, which I think greatly influenced the original The Thing movie. In general the image of an alien as a scary, multi-tentacled organism can be directly traced back to the Cthulhu Mythos. His aliens were really alien. www.hplovecraft.com/creat...stiary.htm
There's an interesting write up on him in the Scriptorium: www.themodernword.com/scr...craft.html that debates his worth as a "serious" author. His semi-official archive is at the appropriate: www.hplovecraft.com |
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Custer1 |
Re: H. P. Lovecraft | ||
![]() It's difficult to rule where horror ends and science fiction begins. Does horror have to involve ghouls and ghosts and the supernatural? Is a story about a very nasty serial killer, without any fantastic elements, horror? You can certainly have horror against a science fiction background, I would have thought, so a story being "horror" doesn't stop it being "science fiction"... But anyway, the man certainly had a vivid imagination, and his contribution to shaping sf has probably been very much under-rated. |
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ljim2000 |
Re: H. P. Lovecraft | ||
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I certainly agree with your comments. I think the sepparation of the genres has more to do with marketing than anything else, which is why Lovecraft gets packaged that way more often.
I would say that rather than horror against a science fiction background, Lovecraft is actually the reverse. His atmosphere is gothic and horrific, but the actual actions and events have a heavy SF element. The same might be said of Mary Shelly's Frankenstein, Prometheus Unbound. |
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ljim2000 |
Re: H. P. Lovecraft | ||
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So far The Starry Wisdom - a Tribute to H. P. Lovecraft is proving a bit of a dissapointment to me. The first three stories seem overly obsessed with grotesque sex, which is a decidedly un-Lovecraftian theme. Ramsey Campbell addresses this in the introduction, saying of H.P.'s theoretical impression of the anthology, "He might have found so much sex disconcerting, but sex was an element in the tales by Arthur Machen he admired." O.k., so maybe this should have been a tribute to Machen then, but then he's not as likely of a selling name, eh?
The Ballard story was not written for the anthology, and the editor merely felt it reminded him of Lovecraft. I get the feeling that's probably the case with many of the bigger names. I'll review the Ballard tale nonetheless in his thread when I get to it. In general, the anthology, while clearly saying "Science Fiction" in bold print on the back, is doing little to address that element of Lovecraft's work. Perhaps that will change as I read on, but nothing in the introduction or foreward makes that seem likely. I guess this is a bit of a review in progress... |
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Custer1 |
Re: H. P. Lovecraft | ||
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Well, it does look a bit of a small-press effort; I guess if you want big names in such a collection, you have to stretch a point here and there...
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ljim2000 |
Re: H. P. Lovecraft | ||
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Well "Black Static" by David Conway is proving me wrong on the lack of SF claim any way. It has elements of cyberpunk and nanotech spun in with a more traditional Lovecraftian theme.
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Custer1 |
Re: H. P. Lovecraft | ||
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That sounds a bit better; there's no reason the whole thing shouldn't be a bit of a mixed bag, let's hope there is some more good stuff in there!
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ljim2000 |
Re: H. P. Lovecraft | ||
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So far the gem of the collection has been John Coulthart's magnificent graphic illustrated interpretation of the classic Lovecraft story "The Call of Cthulhu". It isn't easy to convincingly show in "comic book" (inapropriate term, nothing funny here) fashion a story which features imagery that is supposed to drive you mad if you see it, but his effort is valiant, and the results are chilling.
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Custer1 |
Re: H. P. Lovecraft | ||
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Hmm, not an artist I'm familiar with. I think Richard Corben did some Lovecraft adaptations, way back when. Horror has had a long association with "comic books" - think EC and their competitors, think Warren, and indeed Marvel, especially when they had a black & white magazine line. I suppose "comic books" got their American name because in their earliest days, they tended to be compilations of the newspaper strips, or "the comics". "Graphic Novels" do sound a lot more respectable!
![]() I see this site talks about Corben adapting "Herbert West: Reanimator"... |
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ljim2000 |
Re: H. P. Lovecraft | ||
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Re-animator was an entertaining and funny movie, but it is largely thought of a Lovecraft's lowest literary work. It was among his very first published efforts of course.
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Kira Greystar |
Re: H. P. Lovecraft | ||
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I'm glad that I am not the only one who considers Re-Animator a funny movie. In fact, in my book, it's one of the funniest movies I have ever seen. I have no clue as to whether or not the movie was intended to be funny. All I know is, the movie is hilarious.
Alien was touted as a horror genre movie, although I consider it Science Fiction. Same for Event Horizon. Nice point about those "gods" and "demons" being aliens, and therefore, Science Fiction. That one story, about the human who inhabits an alien body for a time, I consider Science Fiction. I think it's "The Shadow Out of Time." A great Lovecraft opener: When Randolph Carter was thirty he lost the key of the gate of dreams. Prior to that time he had made up for the prosiness of life by nightly excursions to strange and ancient cities beyond space, and lovely, unbelievable garden lands across ethereal seas; but as middle age hardened upon him he felt those liberties slipping away little by little, until at last he was cut off altogether. No more could his galleys sail up the river Oukranos past the gilded spires of Thran, or his elephant caravans tramp through perfumed jungles in Kled, where forgotten palaces with veined ivory columns sleep lovely and unbroken under the moon. Okay so that's not Sci-Fi but it is still beautiful. That's from Lovecraft's The Silver Key. ~ Kira Greystar ~ We'll know for the first time, if we're evil or divine, we're the last in line. |
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ljim2000 |
Re: H. P. Lovecraft | ||
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Yay! So glad to see the creator of this wonderful site taking part in the current discourse! Welcome home. As you can see, we've been doing what we can to keep things interesting.
Great point on "The Shadow Out of Time." |
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Custer1 |
Re: H. P. Lovecraft | ||
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Well, "The Shadow Out of Time" was published in Astounding Stories, rather than Weird Tales, and, even before John W. Campbell Jr took charge, that was definitely an sf pulp...
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ljim2000 |
Re: H. P. Lovecraft | ||
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I think it is in many ways the connection between Lovecraft and one of his main followers, Robert Bloch, author of Psycho, that gets H.P. lumped commercially in "horror."
Psycho by the way certainly answers this question of Custer's: Is a story about a very nasty serial killer, without any fantastic elements, horror? I think horror has more to do with the psychology of fear than the supernatural per se (which is where Lovecraft admittedly fits in.) |
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Ray Emerson |
Re: H. P. Lovecraft | ||
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Custer1;
Would you review my book, "The Riddle of Cthulhu?" RayEmerson@Cthulhu-Books.com |
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Custer1 |
Re: H. P. Lovecraft | ||
![]() Looking at www.cthulhu-books.com, it looks intriguing, but perhaps it's more in ljim2000's line than mine. And it looks as if Lumina Press is a nice way of getting published, too, though Amazon looks a cheaper place to buy a single copy. Good luck with sales - I hope things go smoothly... |
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ljim2000 |
Re: H. P. Lovecraft | ||
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Hmm. Interesting, he definitely seems to take the "aliens" standpoint in that rather brief write-up. I wish it had said a bit more. It would probably pay to read the reader ratings on Amazon for a while, since Lovecraft imitation works better some times than others.
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Ray Emerson |
Re: H. P. Lovecraft | ||
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ljim2000;
Are you talking about my book ("The Riddle of Cthulhu," Ray Emerson)? I don't understand how this site works yet! Ray |
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Ray Emerson |
Re: H. P. Lovecraft | ||
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As the author of The Riddle of Cthulhu, I have a few comments for my readers. This story is based on some of the elements of the Lovecraft Mythos, but not written in the typical Lovecraft style. For the most part, Lovecraft wrote short stories suitable for serial publications like Weird Tales. Consequently, he did not have sufficient space in his stories to fully develop his characters. He made no attempt to create male and female characters with the depth needed either endear them to the reader or enable the reader to identify with them. In The Riddle of Cthulhu the hero and heroine are realistic people that you and I meet everyday. The story starts in the real world, as a law enforcement team investigates hundreds of particularly gruesome serial murderers. As the investigation continues, my characters drift into an ever deepening sequence of weird adventures, finally descending into the depths of the Earth in search of Cthulhus demonic Old Ones, the sources of the murders. Cthulhu, now only too real, throws antagonists and dangers against the team to attempt to destroy them. Since I am a scientist, I have made the science in my story very readable and for the most part realistic. Science fiction readers will enjoy reading my story, which follows the style of adventure classics like H.G. Wells and H. Rider Haggard.
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ljim2000 |
Re: H. P. Lovecraft | ||
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My apologies Ray, I failed to notice that Custer's post was in response to yours asking him to review your book. It does sound very interesting to me!
I think your points about Lovecraft and characterization are for the most part true in his shorter works, but a bit less true in some of his novel length writings (which are admittedly in the minority since most of his writing was written for and published in the pulps.) The Case of Charles Dexter Ward for instance gets into the main character's head a bit more than the short stories, but it does often seem the Lovecraft's characters were based more than a little on H.P. himself. As it appears you figured out, my comments were not about your book, but about the explanation for it on the website which Custer posted. Your personal comments are much appreciated and do a lot to make one want to read the book. If you've read the rest of this thread, you'll find that I started it to make the case that Lovecraft's inventions were to me more Science Fiction than Horror, and that they have had a profound influence on the former genre. It seems you are delving into some similar ideas with your novel. I would be very interested in reading and reviewing your book, though such a review here would not nescessarily be read by many people. We're (Custer and I) trying to promote this board, but a look at recent posts show that most of them come from him and me (with the exception of some in the Movie section.) I do also write for some other sites with a bit more traffic however. Feel free to e-mail me at ljim_2000@yahoo.com if you are interested sending me a copy to review. Otherwise, I'll certainly add your book to my wishlist on Amazon, and maybe come Christmas there will be some tentacles in my stocking! |
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criminalenglish |
Re: H. P. Lovecraft | ||
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Regarding the whole Sf/horror thing, I always like to think of HPL as 'cosmic horror', so it's a bit of both.
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